COVID-19 & Abuse Of Power in the Canadian Military

Dave Morrow [00:00:00]:

In this episode of the podcast, I’m chatting with repeat guest, barrister, Catherine Christensen of Valor Law. I’m also chatting with Brett Campbell and Bart Postma. Both of these individuals are part of a $500,000,000 lawsuit that is being served against the Canadian armed forces for abuse of power. These two individuals were forced out of the Canadian armed forces a career they loved because they refused to go along with the Canadian armed forces, COVID mandates. Katherine Christensen is there to represent them. And all those, the 329 members that were not able to carry on with the career that they love so much. in this conversation, we talk about a few things, but more importantly, we expose a dark underbelly of Canadian niceness. We’ve been Canada the good for far too long. Part of that goodness, that niceness is that we’re not kind. were not able to say the hard truths that need to be said. And in this discussion, we realized that so many of us didn’t agree with what was happening, not only in the Canadian armed forces, but in our communities, but failed to say anything. This is something that we’re gonna have to rectify as a country. as a military, but more importantly, with ourselves. So I hope you enjoy the episode. I really hope that you can support these 329 members by not only buying a t shirt, like this one here, the 329, which is actually now 3:30. I’m gonna have to change this shirt, for support the valor legal action fund, which is actually supporting those members that are suing the government. So $1 from each one of the purchases of these, this shirt goes to that fund. But additionally, If you could like, subscribe and share this episode widely, because as we know, Canadian news is not being shared anymore on social media platforms. We need to ensure that the rest of the world and Canadians know what’s going on here and know the personal stories that this mandate era affect it. That’s it for me. I hope you enjoy the episode, and I’ll see you on the other side. Alright. Here we go. Hey, folks. Welcome to another episode of the Heart to kill podcasts. I’m sitting here once again with Catherine Christensen from Valor Law. she, as you may know, is the barrister that is bringing the lawsuit to the Canadian Armed Forces to the tune of 500,000,000 dollars for abuse of power. Our last episode was huge, and I think it’s partly because most Canadians don’t know what’s going on, and we’re providing a glimpse into what has happened to a bunch of the members that are part of this lawsuit. So today, I’m sitting with Brett and Bart. They are 2 members of the Canadian forces or former members of the Canadian courses that were part of the group of members that were released due to the fact that they did not want to get vaccinated. So I wanna welcome Catherine, Brett, and Bart to the show. this is gonna be a really good way for Canadians, I think, to to connect to individuals personally, and that’s my intent moving forward. So, Catherine, I wanna shoot it over to you first just a recap of where we left off last time. so the calf released a lot of soldiers. officially on your mass tort, there’s 329. and just anecdotally, I know there’s a lot more, that are probably coming down the pipe. As far as I know, the Canadian armed forces still has a vac mandate and maybe you can clear that up. And, essentially, you’re here to represent those that have been they’ve had essentially their rights in French, but more importantly, they were wrongfully dismissed and and were were taking it to, taking it to the courts so that we can get, we can get some closure on that. So, Catherine, always a pleasure to have you back on the show. if you have any updates, that’d be great. And, give us some some context as to, as to what’s going on with the case right now, please.

Catherine Christensen [00:04:32]:

Well, one of the updates I can give you is numbers now officially 330.

Dave Morrow [00:04:37]:

There were a few changes too. So I gotta change I gotta change my shirt. I gotta change my shirt. I gotta scratch it up.

Catherine Christensen [00:04:45]:

scratch it out. but I can also tell you that there’s a 2.0 version of this lawsuit coming down very shortly. with hundreds morrow. Because once we got out about the original mass tort, I’ve been definitely been approached. I’ve also been approached by well over a 150 vaccine injured members as a Canadian armed forces. so I can officially tell you that this mandate has taken out more members of the Canadian Armed Forces than the Taliban. Wow. Ever did.

Dave Morrow [00:05:21]:

No. That’s a that’s one way of putting it in perspective. So — That’s a headline.

Catherine Christensen [00:05:25]:

Yeah. There’s a headline for you. So we’ve got that going on. also interestingly enough, it’s now attracted the attention of mainstream media, which is saying something for this topic. they they need to to expose this abuse of power they get focused on the COVID piece, but as I’ve said, the lawsuit is about how CAF treated their people. they’ve had a problem with this for decades, and, the mandate gave me the perfect example of something an event happening on a specific time. October 2021. And then all the things that the Cheney Command did that abused their power between then and still continuing today. we’ve got stuff going on, from, you know, chain of command laughing at people with cardiac arrhythmias, in young men because they thought it was a joke. people that were injured in their service and were post op from surgeries that were denied medical releases because they weren’t getting vaccinated even though they were on medical leave and on their way out with the medical pension. to people that abs that agreed to be vaccinated and were vaccinated in the back alley. behind field hospital because, they were considered too dangerous to walk into the clinic to receive their injection. So, on top of all the other stories I’ve told you, and the stories you’re gonna hear directly from 2 of the members of the lawsuit today. So It’s going to be interesting to see what happens. certainly the military, review committee for grievances. We’ve had more come down all in our client’s favor, saying yes that their rights were breached. Yes. That’s, did should have used section 126 did not. And, anytime the chief of defense staff issues an order that reaches the charter of rights, it’s an unlawful order. I don’t care what constitutional expert they drag out of there or drag out the CTV did the other day. an unlawful order is an unlawful order. And then the whole deck card falls apart.

Dave Morrow [00:07:43]:

Yeah. That’s a that’s a really good point. The, the overarching principle here is you know, abuse of power. And, that’s often it gets lost in the sauce, especially with the last conversation we had. It’s like, well, they’re in the military should just shut the fuck up and and, you know, do as their toll because they’re supposed to take orders. It’s like, hold on a sec. That’s an issue in and of itself. The abuse of power is the main thing here because they didn’t follow the rules that they set up themselves. And in any other context, that’s an abuse of power. Doesn’t matter what left, right, doesn’t matter what your political ideology is. And that’s that’s where the the focus obviously needs to go, and and that’s why your lawsuit has a a very, unique approach in in that sense because it’s it’s clear there were some serious issues there and, you know, the allegations, are are pretty pretty serious. let’s put it that way. So, thanks for for that, summary there, Catherine. So I’m going to send it over to, Bart. Bart, thanks for coming on the show. I really appreciate you volunteering to tell your story. and I just wanna say to to both of you guys, Brett and Bart, you know, tons of respect for you guys sticking to your guns, sticking to your principles, because I included you know, cave to the pressure, the the huge amounts of pressure that were out there. and and that’s something that I I live with now, and I I know there’s a lot of guys in in in gals in the forces that that live with this, that as well. But, you guys are are are the folks that that held the line. So, I really appreciate that you did that. And now you’re here to tell your story. and I wanna start with with you, Bart. so what was what was your career like? And then how did you end up here, you know, released from the forces and and and now chatting on the podcast and part of a lawsuit?

Bart Postma [00:09:41]:

Yeah. yeah. So just, yeah, quickly about my background. I was, 24 years in the Air Force. I, served on dead seeking pilot first for 10 years, then I moved over to Moose Jaw to be an instructor. And I had the, honor and privilege of being a snowbird pilot for, 2 years

Dave Morrow [00:10:01]:

2014 15.

Bart Postma [00:10:02]:

Childhood, dream complete. And, yeah, it was, top of my game, at the end of it. I was actually an instructor instructor in Moose Jaw. I had started to see things go south pretty early on. So I’ve I started the fight, well before COVID, actually. and I first got in trouble a little bit for Facebook posts, which I found ridiculous. I was I was well aware of what my free speech rights were, even as a military member, And I was simply just sharing posts that were negative of Trudeau. I was shocked and appalled, to learn about a year before COVID that I had been investigated all the way up, to Winnipeg for my Facebook post just because they were negative about Trudeau I wouldn’t I wouldn’t have known I was even investigated that it never did nothing ever happened, but because I knew everybody around the base, I quickly got word of what was going on. So I was already starting to get worried about about our charter rights back then. I took leave after that after our, my second son was born, so I was on rental for the summer. And that’s when the COVID stuff started to happen. So immediately when I got back, I could see what was going on. It was just you know, the the mandates were ludicrous. I started the fight with the mask immediately, and, I just walked right onto the base, and I refused to wear a mask. And I got away with that for about 2 weeks, before I was called into the CEO’s office. And right there, you could tell that that they had either no idea about human rights, or, they just didn’t bear about them anymore. I requested a religious accommodation verbally because it had for my family, and I had took on a religious aspect It was it was just so bizarre that they were forcing everybody to take part in this lie of cloth mass protecting everybody. It was it was pure insanity. so it was genuine. I said, this is religious. Like, I feel like it’s in a front to god that I’m I expected to go along with this lie that mass, and I’m gonna be forced to put masks on my young children. I’m just not gonna do it. So, the first thing the CEO of, the school there at Moose Jaw told me was that they didn’t do religious accommodations. It wasn’t available at the school. It’s like, sorry. We can’t we can’t sign that up to you. We don’t do that here. We we don’t do that at our unit. So then I’m like, I’m pretty sure you do. Yeah. Then she, she told me, well, I’d no longer be employable as a pilot. She knew that, obviously, I’d love to fly. So she was right out of the gate with punitive measures that I was not gonna be employable at the unit anymore. it escalated quickly to them slapping her and the chief slapping masks down on the table in front of me after I told them it was a religious thing and said, you’re not allowed to leave the building unless you put these mat this mask on right now. I said I just told you it’s a religious thing. I’m not gonna do that. then they said, well, then you’re not allowed to leave the building. So I said, am I being detained? And, for a moment there, there was there was a silence because we were at an impasse. And then eventually, I just said, well, okay. I’m gonna I’ll I’ll leave the building, but I’ll I’ll go straight to my vehicle. and, we can sort it out from there. And she said, she said I wasn’t allowed to go get my, coat and car keys. So they they really have a thing about trying to get that was wintertime too. They really have a thing somehow about trapping people outside in the cold without coats on. They really love that measure. It’s like they’re all in they’re all coordinating together. Trap them outside in the cold. Anyway, I got my direct supervisor, which was, he was a reasonable guy. He was a witness to the events to. he got my coat and car keys for me then. So, from there, it was just, an exercise of in insanity. So they I put in the request for a religious accommodation. It was, essentially, to just do all my duties remotely — Mhmm. — by a computer. And then the only time I would come into work was to fly the aircraft

Dave Morrow [00:14:36]:

during which time I’d be wearing an oxygen mask anyway. You have to put a It it should — — underneath your oxygen mask?

Bart Postma [00:14:44]:

Yeah. Exactly. That that wasn’t a rule. I’ll just check. So so and it wasn’t even a rule at the time to have mass outdoors. At that time, you didn’t even have to have mass. There was no provincial mandates, and the military didn’t have the outdoor mass policy. So I thought that would work, but, I thought they would be reasonable. of course, they weren’t. They denied the accommodation right away. and it just quickly boiled down to that I was, my presence on the base was a health and safety threat to DND personnel. civilian personnel and their families with no with no evidence whatsoever to back that up. I provided all sorts of evidence

Dave Morrow [00:15:26]:

studies to show them it’s kind of effective. Yeah. Like, were you in the counseling process yet? Were were did they take you down that route? Like, were you how did because there I mean, like, were you issued a initial warning? Did you go through the the administrative process, or was it just all of a sudden they’re like, hey. Get outside. Get out of here. no code, no flying for you, and no administrative action to actually enforce that. Yeah. They started out of the gate with that, and then they seemed like they looked it up later and found out, oh, no. We do have to do accommodation.

Bart Postma [00:15:56]:

So I wrote the memo for accommodation, like I said, explaining how I wish to operate. they denied it. They just denied it. We just said, nope. And then but then weirdly afterwards, when I started the grievance process, they said that they did There was never any issue about whether or not it was sincere. So they at least they started out. They tried. They tried to talk to the podre and get him to overrule me on my beliefs, which is ridiculous. And, Then, yeah, they’ve essentially just deemed my presence, as a threat to health and safety. Then they claimed that they were accommodating me just because they weren’t firing They were gonna post me somewhere and get they would they knew what would occur. They knew that if they posted me, I would probably retire. And I quickly got, backed into the corner where, yeah, I had to think of my, my family and, because I I could see the writing on the wall already with as soon as they were starting the vaccination process, started to say it wasn’t mandatory, then it was mandatory. I, like, I gotta I got a retreat to a a more solid ground to keep my family safe, and that’s what I did. So I I started the VR process almost straight away because I knew The the level of vindictiveness and bullying that I was dealing with, it was clearly a personal thing. They they wanted they wanted to hurt me. So I I knew it was time to I better get out of there before they take me at this point. — question for you. Up until then, I’m assuming that you’re you’re at the pinnacle of our air force when it comes to being a snowbird.

Dave Morrow [00:17:32]:

You’re the you’re the cool guy wearing the red suit. I just showed, like, if you know, you’re American and you’re tuning in. Like, you made it there because of your character and your competence at what you do. Did you ever experience any mistreatment or anything of that sort up until this moment?

Bart Postma [00:17:50]:

No. Like I said, I guess it was The start of it was pre COVID because I could see the quick change occurring. essentially, it’s it’s communist type behavior. where they start the purge. And they’re looking for people that don’t support their dear leader Trudeau because they start an investigation on me because I posted a few national post articles that were negative towards Trudeau. So, yeah, that that would have been the start of it, which good because I was kinda pre awakened to what how ruthless they were going to be. So, again, with the mask, I I could see what they were up to. It was a step. You know, I I could see right from the beginning. It’s gonna be force vaccinations, force masks, everything. So I thought I’d start fighting right away. I honestly, I at the time, though, because I was out ahead, I felt pretty alone. There wasn’t a lot of people that were willing to stand next to me and not wear a mask, even though I had hundreds of people coming up to me saying I can’t leave your gut the guts to walk around here without a mask. Like, like, I hate these masks, but, so I mean, that I guess that’s not to make excuses or anything, but that was part of the decision making too. I felt quite — Right. — alone. I didn’t know if anybody was gonna actually stand shoulder to shoulder with me. and I had to think about my family. So, IV yard and, thank like, I’m so thankful that I had that position to retreat to And mostly I’m involved in following along here because, there’s there’s several guys that I flew with who are excellent pilot top of their game also. And, they didn’t have that option. And, I really feel for them, and I I hope to get, some sort of compensation.

Dave Morrow [00:19:38]:

Bart, that’s, you know, that’s a that’s a hell of a decision you had to make. And, obviously, a hell of an ordeal you had to go through. So thanks for sharing that. It’s, it’s it’s really good to hear that, you know, you you held the line and and, you were able to maintain your integrity throughout. so I’ll get back to you later, Bart, with a few more questions, but, Brett, you’ve been waiting patiently. I know you were, one battalion, right, RCR? And, how long were you in the forces and then what led to you being, being released?

Brett Campbell [00:20:22]:

So I actually joined pretty late. so I did 6 years. my story is kinda funny, and, I got kind of lucky with it. I was not 5 F. technically, I went through the whole 5 F process, but the 5 F papers didn’t go through before my contract was up. So, my contract was up March of 2022, and we started dealing with the psychological bullshit in November, and even before that, of 2021. so I did 6 years. you know, I, I was in a sniper platoon for a couple of years there. and, I just, you know, I just I thought I had just started my my dream career. Like, I I wanted to be a sniper as soon as I joined the military, and I got to that point. And, I was in the platoon, and then I had ambitions to go, you know, try out for selection and stuff, and, then I saw that I just saw the corruption happening with COVID, and I Immediately, I just, like, snapped at it, but I was like, what is happening here? This is something I need to question because, everyone who’s been in the military would agree with me that it’s it’s minute it’s manage your communism in the military as it is, but, like, you know, the rules and everything. Right? It’s — Yeah. and we’re okay with that because we have to be, a form that works together to, you know, to do what we need to do if we’re ever called upon to do something. And, I started seeing Communism in my civilian life, I started questioning everything. and that’s that’s when I was, you know, I I really started to to ask questions. And then, you know, the I saw a lot of people who agree with me, but they are too scared to say anything they were essentially censoring their speech in real life, which is, like, probably the scariest thing you can think of when all these hard as fuck dudes in the military who I’ve never been to war. I’ve never not, I don’t have any combat experience. So I went to Lafayette. That’s it. but, all these guys have been been to war. They’ve been to Afghanistan. it’s hard to spot guys that I thought were gonna stand up to this. Just just went along with it. I was super confused. I thought, like, instantly, I thought our team had command was gonna have her back on this and and be like, no. This is this is BS. We’re gonna shut it down right now. And I was like, why doesn’t everyone just stand up and stop this right now? Because, I mean, 2 weeks before they, they came to us and said, you guys are gonna be out in 30 days. And that was that 30 day mark gonna be, like, end of December. So you’re not gonna have a job or income — Mhmm. — around Christmas time. right before and all the coercion and, and the threats, was, like, once a week, every week, for, like, for months until they a lot of people crack. There was almost a hundred people at my battalion. from what I know of that weren’t vaccinated at that point in time. But then at a certain day, I wasn’t allowed in the in the in the building because that wasn’t vaccinated, but there was other guys that had an appointment booked to get their first vaccine 3 months from now that were allowed in the building. So, again, the science didn’t make sense in the first place. Right? Yeah. So it’s like, I was like, can people not just question this and and figure this out? Like, so Immediately, I was like, look, I I joined the military at 27 years old. I was I was turned 28 in basic training. So I had, you know, experience and skills before I joined. Like, they were threatening me with, what are you gonna do? Like, what you’re gonna leave? Like, you know, we spent all this money training you. Why are you gonna leave? And, and, and, you’re you’re not gonna be able to make an income. Well, I was an architect before I joined the military, and I had lots of construction experience. So I literally went to the store, spent 1000 of dollars on tools on my visa, and started my own construction business. I had no other options. And I it’s been tough. I’ve been, you know, going out at ever since, and I, unfortunately, only shows the career that is only busy 6 months out of the year, decks and fences, kinda messed up on that one, but, I know I do side stuff for another company, during the winter as well. So, I’m I’m lucky now, but Yeah. It’s it’s it’s been rough. And, I mean, I’m I’m rambling on it. Just ask me a question to stop me at any time. I mean, But — Yeah. When I’m when I’m near and near is,

Dave Morrow [00:24:47]:

very similar to to Bart. It’s the level of, It’s a level of coercion, bullying. And, you know, the first thing that popped to mind was, gang colors. Right? Are you in or out? And, typically, we’re probably Canadian forces. You know? So we think, oh, we’re part of the cat family. Like, we’re, you know, a brotherhood, if you wanna call it. And so, therefore, if if your family looking for each other, and that’s how it’s sold, and that’s how we’re trained, but then this comes up this must have caused a, like, an emotional uproar. and you joined later, which is is an important point because you joined after the age of twenty five, your ego is very well formed. So you have a a lot more life experience than, you know, nineteen, twenty, twenty one year old that is in battalion. And and and that and that has that has huge impact, and that’s typically why you want younger recruits because they’re easily molded. Right? They’re easily, they easily become part of the tribe a lot easier because now this is your family, but when you’re a bit older, you can see through the bullshit because you have that life experience. So it it it it’s — Yep. — it’s interesting that you you brought that up and you you joined it, and you were the guy that was like, no, hey. Well, you’re you’re like the elder statesman at that point. so, the thing that that really stands out though is that people didn’t say anything And this is a point that I brought up, because I’m I’m a big fan now of Russian literature, especially Alexander Salshinnitzen and the Goulangeripelago, and he says it time and time again. How many tens of millions of people were murdered? But if when they started coming through the villages, and, police were rounding up people. People had to just started screaming and taking bottles and been like, fuck you. Get out of here. There would have been no way that they would’ve been able to carry on, but they were able to convince you that you’re gonna lose your job. You’re gonna might lose your life. We might take your kids And and so, you know, the impossible position that you’re in, especially, like, I don’t know if you have kids or if you have a family, but if I was tough. I mean, like, the loss of income, especially for a man, that’s that’s almost like death because now you can’t provide. So, of course, they’re gonna dangle And figure, you know, when they say, well, what are you gonna do? Like, you’re some dumb dumb that can’t figure it out. Right? Like, oh, this is the only thing you’re gonna be able They took yep.

Brett Campbell [00:27:08]:

They took my LDA or — Wow. They took it away. That’s $55100 a month. They They, after the massive amount of coercion, they and I kept signing papers saying that, just continue doing what you’re doing. I’m not gonna take They finally called me in the office and said, do you want it to sign here? And I said, are you taking my are you stealing from me right now? And, like, the guy was nervous. He’s like, yeah. We’re taking your LDA. It was like, And for for those for those that don’t know, that’s a land duty allowance. So that’s a little it’s an allowance for, again, for guys like yourself. I had to move. my rent was $600 a month in Pembroke. I had to move back on base in Shacks. And And because I couldn’t afford it anymore. Right? So that’s a massive amount of, like, $500 a month is, is a huge amount. And, that’s when I was like, okay, this this is getting real. And, right from the start, they made us part of the propaganda. So A lot of people don’t know this, but when I they make an appointment for your vaccine regardless of whether you’re getting it or not. I told my training plan I’m not getting it. No matter what, But the higher ups make your appointment, you have to show up, and then you, you stand on your the dotted line 6 feet apart and you’re all in, you know, a little square box you’re being told about the vaccine and they briefly label off some side effects and you go, and I say, okay, can I go now? Like, no, you have to go talk to the doctor. He’s gonna administered the vaccine as okay. I sit down and the guys there there’s all these deaths, like, you know, beside each other and I said, he’s like, are you gonna take it or no? And I said, no. He goes, okay. Well, you have to pretend to take it. What? I was like, what? He’s like, I have to I have to make I have to make it look like I’m giving it to you. And I said, why? He said, well, if you don’t do this, you’ll get charged. And I said, so you’re making me part of the propaganda, essentially. so I had to, I had to lift up my sleeve and fake get it. He held the needle up to my arm and fake get it. Put the needle back down, put a paper on on top of it, writes wrote something down on a piece of paper, and I walked away. And I had to still wait for 15 minutes in case I had an adverse reaction to the fake vaccine that I just got. — bananas.

Dave Morrow [00:29:10]:

And then — What? — I told my buddies that, but, like, yeah, it’s pretty messed up. Well, how many how many people did that happen to that? I mean, like, it can’t just be you’re the only one. So does that didn’t that didn’t that, like, didn’t that make you vaccinated, though?

Brett Campbell [00:29:24]:

So everyone so that’s the thing. Everyone had their own rules when it came to what you would do. If someone said they weren’t gonna get it, maybe that their chain of command didn’t make them go, go to the appointment, but it it got to the point where I had to go right to the needle and say no to the needle. They they wanted to make they wanted to the last minute chance of me saying, oh, screw it. Let’s get it. they every chance they could get, they wanted to make sure that we we’re gonna try and get it, and we we didn’t. And, yeah, a lot of things I’m forgetting. I mean, when I was leaving for my I have to do a medical when you leave. Right? And, I think, actually, Catherine has this on video because I recorded it. but I wasn’t wearing a mask going into the CDU. And the lady at the the front stopped me. And she said, oh, you have to wear a mask. She was nice about it. Whatever. I said, well, I’m not wearing it, which took a good look. Let me get the search major. He comes out and, he starts telling me I have to wear a mask. And I said, well, I’m I’m not wearing one. I was like, you were Are you refusing me medical service? because I won’t muzzle myself right now. And he’s and he it took him, like, 4, 4 or 5 times for me to say that before he finally said, yes. we are. I was like, thank you, and I walked out. And that was a sergeant major. Like, these these people were served as country for so long, and they, they you know, they fought in wars. They they they all they wanted to do is help people. And all of a sudden, they get told this this bullshit and there’s bullshit lie, and they just go along with it no matter what. Like, it was never for the boys. We were never supposed to be I don’t even know how to explain it. I just it it angled me so much. You can tell. And, and it’s it’s been

Dave Morrow [00:31:10]:

In almost three and a half years, like, figured it out. Yeah. The the the emotional burden, something like this has, and it’s, yeah. you know, it’s a morrow injury. That’s that’s that’s what you — Yeah. Bart most likely, me, a lot of us, And, you know, I had a buddy of mine. he was overseas in Afghanistan for years before me. And he’s like, man, he’s like, I did not serve this country to see what’s going on now. He’s like, we went over there with, you know, to to bring Canadian values. to a foreign country, and I believed in it. He’s like, this, this isn’t the country I served for, man. And and it causes a disregulation within you because you have this idea of what the country stands for and then at a almost overnight, you have your your your buddies, your chain of command, saying that somehow you are now the problem. You are now the enemy, and that is awful, for for anybody. And in your case, you know, you lost the the set the job that you love. and I really, you know, appreciate you you sharing that. and we’ll get back to you, in a second. I wanna, head back to, to Catherine. Yep. Yeah. Sorry. I need to get a grip of my emotions now, after hearing those stories. When it comes to the abuse of power, Catherine, there seems to be so much that went wrong. how in the world did we go from what was seemingly a law abiding rule of law based society and especially the military, which is everything is codified in, you know, military law of the national defense act, QR KR knows now. How did I’d like to hear how you think this all unraveled so quickly so far?

Catherine Christensen [00:33:07]:

I think part of it is a new culture in the Canadian armed forces that you do whatever you need to do to get promoted up into the ranks. especially in the higher officer court. I also think that, they need to seriously look at educating their officers in their own policies, QRNOS, National Defense Act, because what I saw across the country were CEOs who didn’t have a a clue about what the actual policies and rules were that they were supposed to be following. The other thing we need to to really seriously look at educating everyone in the ranks on it from private to general and the Navy equivalent, in the, strategic corporal, learning to think for yourself, being comfortable in questioning an order. because that’s a prob we’ve got a problem. in February, I was in federal court, and the Crown lawyer told the court that no jurisdiction over the chief of defense staff in military matters.

Dave Morrow [00:34:09]:

The Crown Corps?

Catherine Christensen [00:34:11]:

The Crown lawyer said that. Yes. And so we have a problem. If we’ve got a chief defense staff who says that he doesn’t have to follow the law and doesn’t have to answer to the court, and that’s the culture that he’s propagating in his ranks. That’s a problem. Canada has a problem we got a military. It says the law they don’t need to follow the law. They can do whatever they want. And I think that’s probably been their experience, and I think the lawsuit and the ones that are coming are the huge wake up call that they are actually accountable. So many were told You can’t sue the Canadian armed forces if you’re serving. Well, yes, you can. I’d like to remind them of, 2 generals. general Stalker. He’s a general now. And, General 410 are both have lawsuits against the Canadian air forces while serving and have been promoted through the ranks. So that’s a absolute myth that was used against people. you know, you’re you’re at your career’s over if you try to sue the Canadian armed forces for wrongdoing. And, having, yeah, and having been in the the nursing profession for over 2 decades before I was a lawyer, I know the impact of the possibility of being sued for making a mistake or getting it wrong. And I, if nothing else, would like to remind the chain of command and the Canadian armed forces that they can indeed be sued and they can indeed be named in lawsuits and be held personally liable for bad decisions.

Dave Morrow [00:35:44]:

That’s a really good point. And I think it speaks to the the bigger issue and that I was guilty of. I didn’t know my own government well enough. I didn’t know my constitution charter well enough. Things started popping up, and I just assumed, well, that’s a human rights offense. Well, is it? I don’t know. I I didn’t know the first thing about it, and that’s one thing I admire the Americans for. They earned their Constitution because it was in blood. And ours was more or less handed to us, and it didn’t feel like we earned it. It was just a process that happened. There was no war. And I’m not saying we need a war in order to have a constitution that’s valuable, but I think it definitely makes it a lot more serious when your Constitution is born out of blood. and we earned it. And I think most Canadian don’t have a freaking clue what’s in that thing. Well, the other — And let alone all of our laws.

Catherine Christensen [00:36:47]:

Right. The other thing we’ve got is a a constitution that is very, very new. Right. Not only do more people not know what it said. but the Americans have 200 years morrow than 200 years on us for challenging their government and holding them accountable. And, so if you’re wondering where some of my tactics are coming from, That’s I’m looking to our neighbors to the south. How do you challenge your government? How do you challenge the chain of command? And, you know, that there needs to be a huge shakeup as far as our concern in the Canadian armed forces. the ombudsman is useless. There’s no teeth and people were told not to contact their office regarding any of this mandate stuff. So ineffective. the in the states, they have what’s called an inspector general who’s outside the chain of command and everything goes there. So grievances would go there. concerns about their chain of command would go there. It’s there’s no hiding grievances in a bottom drawer hoping that the guy is released before he can get that grievance up moved up. it would and the inspector general in the states has teeth. They can bring charges. They can recommend. Yeah. And I think that’s Canada needs that because that’s the only answer — Mhmm. — to we’ve the chain of command isn’t gonna fix itself. They’re gonna have to have someone impose it on. Yeah. And and, you know, part of part of what I’m

Dave Morrow [00:38:13]:

coming to grips with and realizing is We’ve been Canada the good for a very long time. We’ve rested on our niceness for 2 generations or so, maybe even more. And now the ugly head of that is is starting to rear itself because that niceness is actually not kind because we’re abdicating our responsibility to those that are in power that have, like, the, good governance and our best interests in mind. But now we’re peeling back the curtain and we’re saying, oh, wait. No. You don’t. What have you been doing this whole time? If this is any indication of what it’s gonna look like in bad times here in Canada, things are going to fall apart very quickly. in my opinion. and I’d like to go back to, to Bart and ask you, there’s folks especially when I post, and I don’t know if you’ve seen anything online, but I post this stuff about this. and specifically because it’s within the context of health, fitness, and that’s what I cover. and I get responses from folks that I know, I respect them that this is a frivolous lawsuit. All these folks are just cry babies. They should just follow orders. what do you have to say to to somebody that makes that type of comment?

Bart Postma [00:39:33]:

Well, yeah, I mean, I’m I’m so sick of it, really, like I said, because I’ve been fighting against this, for quite some time. like you’ve mentioned, you mentioned, Alexander Sultchen that that I’ve read that too. I posted about that too. It was probably one of the reasons I got in trouble, yeah, about the idea of people standing up. so there’s the truly asleep people that just listen to the CBC and they do whatever. but there’s at least an equal amount of people that are awake and see what’s going on. And as I’ve gone through this, I’m actually more upset with the people that know, but don’t do anything. Mhmm. Mhmm. Yep. because people people are away. Like, if they’re asleep, they’re asleep. They’re hopeless. You can try, but most of the time, they’re just asleep, you’re never gonna get through to them. What I was more angry with was, you know, the police coming up to you and being like, like, if you’re at a protest and they’d be like, work on your side. They whisper it. It’s like, we’ll say something then. It’s like, I don’t care. Like, you think I’m supposed to, say, give you a pat on the back. You’re you’re hiding signed all the protesters and actually fighting against the protests. very early on, I was just gonna say to, like, my wife and I, we didn’t really wanna participate in the protest because the police were vibrating. They were ready to start pummeling people. We took our kids with us. So We actually started a Freedom Convoy before it was even a thing in in Moose Jaw. We we started a website called Freedom Convoy. We and and it was just hap local envoys. Don’t go stand on a corner in a group because you’re gonna get a ticket. Right? It was a way to, you know, cat and mouse around protesting. So we actually started a protest. And again, it was a I knew people supported us, and it was just a convoy every Saturday around Moose Jaw. the very first time we did it, nobody showed up. It was me, my wife and her 3 kids in her minivan with signs all over it, but guess who did show up? 9 police cars — Yeah. — to trail us through Moosecha, a family, and a minivan, giving him police. A lot of resources. So, again, eventually, I think our record was 6 cars that we had in the convoy every Saturday. But again, what struck me through that time was, like, where is everybody? because I know there’s people out there. in the end, I retired. And then because we had the Freedom convoy handle already, when the actual Freedom convoyed Ottawa happened, we started getting a lot of their traffic. So we re redirected them, to where they needed to go and mirrored some of the information for them when they got shut down. But finally, during the Freedom Convoy, I saw some people come out. Like, it was the most incredible experience. I I loaded up my motor home, and I joined the convoy, not with my family at first. I ended up going back and forth between here and Ottawa three times. The last time to pick up my family when Trudeau declared children were illegal on Parliament Hill. So we were all there for that too. But again, what strikes me the most for Canadians is that The people that know what’s going on need to need to start doing something. Say something. Like, it’s that we’re not gonna make it. it’s gonna be, like, so it’s an agent said, it’s gonna get to the point where people won’t even say anything they’ll be cowering as their neighbors are getting dragged away. Well, we we’ve got a get the crowbars and be ready to go. We gotta fight before we get to that point. So, yeah.

Dave Morrow [00:43:07]:

We’re fighting cognitive right now. That makes a lot of sense. And in in the previous episode, you know, I I used the quote of his, and, and a paraphrase, but essentially, it’s, you know, you just always assume that it can’t happen here. He’s the the Russians — Mhmm. — they didn’t just assume that they would have a Gulag archipelago that they would murder tens of 1,000,000 of their own citizens. They were doing somewhat okay. but, you know, you never think that you’d turn on your neighbors like that, but they did. And they just constantly think, well, nope. It can’t happen here. Same in Nazi Germany. It can’t happen they’re, you know, leaders of the a free world back in the day. And, yeah, slowly but surely it just started getting eroded over time. So yeah, the the ability to actually stand up, but not just virtue signal, which is the, you know, the expression of the the era right now. you just virtue saying, you put something on Twitter, you put something on Facebook, you go tell a friend, like, yeah, I’m with you, man. Okay. But what are your actions? because your actions speak a lot louder than your words, and I have to echo that, loudly. so, Brett, I wanted to ask you, obviously, like, you’re fit dude. You gotta get a head in your shoulders. You’re gonna land on your feet, but what do you hope Canadians learn from this whole experience and and and what you had to go through.

Brett Campbell [00:44:36]:

just, just don’t rely on the government. for for everything. don’t rely on them to tell you how to live and and and know how to think TV is called television for a reason. Tell a vision. They’re telling you how to to live their their they’re trying to manifest your life for you and and tell your reality for you. and if you just turn the TV off and start thinking critically critically for yourself, And, start questioning things. I mean, for me, I question everything, and you should question everything because, you, you don’t know what’s what’s really going on and until you start asking questions. And, you know, some people would say it’s a mass psychosis, formation or mass formation psychosis, I believe. And, I actually agree with that. It’s, everyone’s hypnotized. It it just blew my mind, and it’s just, but, yeah, it’s just have, just know that there’s different perspectives out there and, and, and think for yourself. And I know people probably heard this a million times before, but Yeah. That’s good. Yeah. It has to be said. Yeah. So — wise words, Brett. wise words.

Dave Morrow [00:45:53]:

Catherine, I’ll I’ll I’ll send it back to you with a question that often, pops up in my my feed and and comments, about ideology. what I’m hearing here, you know, from Brett Park, obviously, these guys are that, you know, like, salt of the earth Canadians, you know, distinguished careers, you know, sniper, snowbird, clearly very competent in what they do, clearly an asset to the country. but I know what’s gonna be said is, oh, well, these guys must be some right wing fringe. And I’ve been labeled that. And I I find it curious because I’ve literally been a liberal my entire life. And I I say that a small l liberal because I believe in just liberal values. And I think most Canadians do. The party, whatever. It is what it is. But like Brett, I like keeping an open mind, and I wanna ensure that the best human being gets the position in a political party, I want to ensure policies make sense. And in this case, nothing seemed to make sense in everything came down to are you on the left, or are you on the right? So how do we dispel the myth that somehow if you are a, denier or you do not believe in the, the government line that, hey, we all had to get vaccinated. It was, it was the only way to to protect the population. And, you know, if you, didn’t believe in the science and somehow you belonged in some outcast community. What what do we do about that? And what what how do we how do we dispel that myth that somehow this is like a right wing argument?

Catherine Christensen [00:47:42]:

Well, I’m actually kinda glad you asked me that because I was asked by, mainstream reporter earlier this week, aren’t you just encouraging conspiracy theorists by bringing this lawsuit? which I thought was very interesting because I said, well, actually, no, because the lawsuit’s not actually about COVID itself. So there you go. I’m not sure how we’re going to heal the divide. we’ve had leadership in this country that is deliberately divided people in order to for political gain. Mhmm. the politics of devices. We see it around the world, to our neighbors to the south. We see it in Britain. We see it in Europe. we need to get to a place where people the people in the middle are willing to talk to each other and willing to go back to the Canada that I remember people could have different opinions and it didn’t matter. We could still have a conversation, or if it got too heated, could walk away. and, live your life next door. I know growing up, at the time I was growing up, Catholics and Protestants were at war with each other, literally at war with each other. Mhmm. And, Protestants were supposed to speak to Catholics and Catholics were supposed to speak speak to Protestant. and, ironically growing up at a Protestant family too of one of my animals and one of my aunts, both buried Catholics. And I distinctly remember the uproar that happened in both sides of their families that they had dared to marry outside of their religion. But if you ask me now, I don’t think there’s too much of a problem. between Catholics and Protestants marrying each other and, speaking to each other. So things can change. the chat shutting out the chatter from this the people that are screaming the loudest, I think, is going to be the solution. the other solution would be to have our mainstream media go back to being actually journalists and reporters, not towing the party line. being willing to challenge what’s going on, be willing to give people information, and allow people to make up their own minds of what they they’re seeing. that could start with removing government funding and letting mainstream media. If it crumbles, it crumbles, maybe out of it, we get some really, valid old school journalism where they have to back up what they’re saying. and, expose corruption when it comes and not be so dependent on government money.

Dave Morrow [00:50:31]:

Yeah. I’m optimistic as well. I think there’s still a long way to go through all of this. they could expose a really dark underbelly that we have to address as a country. And I’m lucky enough to have this platform, which was born out of really nothing. And now I get to talk to folks like yourself. And, the fact that there is literally I just saw Facebook is gonna be scrubbing all news off their plat Canadian news off their platform. There’s very little in terms of voices that are talking about this now on Canadian social media platforms. So I have a bit more of a serious duty now to, make sure that we we convey these messages, that, you know, we we have something to say. There was a wrong that was committed, and we need to to fix this. We need to address it. We need to come to grips with it. And, you know, Brett, think about what you’re saying about the fact that you know, you have war fighters that are amongst you. You’re all, you know, working for the same team, and then they just they turned on you on it almost, like, on a dime. and I’m I’m hoping that that message that you know, especially within the teams, like, there you have such diversity, at least my experience within, the Canadian forces was, I grew up in a in a in a suburban area, but when I joined, I met everybody. All my friends at, like, Jamaican and Indian, and I just had such a diverse and then I got to go to foreign countries and meet. Okay. And I also got diversity of thought, which was so important. And I was really thankful for that because I think had I not joined the Canadian forces? I would not have got that diversity of thought. And from what I what I learned was it’s important to have that diversity thought because it allows you to be more effective on the battlefield. But now wars over, it’s, okay, back to status quo shut your mouth and tow the company line. And I’m hoping that there’s more that stand up and say, no. No. No. No. This this this is unacceptable and that the leadership eventually starts to to fill in the gaps where, where where needed. and I hope this podcast serves as a means to, to convey those messages of of hope and and the share your stories as well. Catherine, before we we sign off here, I just wanna see if there are there any updates with respect to the, to the court case and and if if there are, could you share with the, with the audience, please?

Catherine Christensen [00:53:04]:

Yeah. Not much to tell. the Crown has not yet responded to our statement of claim with their statement of defense. So, is very interesting to me. Usually, the crown is quite quick to try and shut down any type of lawsuit, threatened to bring a motion to dismiss, etcetera. but They have not done so in this case. I, so that gives me some optimism. The other thing that I wanna point out is, King Spence Justice here in Alberta this week came down with that the chief, medical officer, her lockdowns, etcetera, in Alberta were illegal.

Brett Campbell [00:53:42]:

Oh.

Catherine Christensen [00:53:43]:

And that’s a huge step forward. That’s a real, change in our courts because, you know, I’ve I’ve been heard lots of people saying, well, the courts are corrupt and you can’t get anywhere. But, the courts need to be challenged just like everything else. And if it, Keith Wilson said it the best during the convoy, that if it takes this to expose that our courts are corrupt and need to be changed, well, then that’s what this purpose will be. Mhmm. But, my skill set is using what I have, and that’s the court system. So There’s a little bit of, Raya Sunshine coming out of Alberta. Once again, Alberta is leading the way. No wonder — Cheers the day. — to treat all liberals don’t like it. Saves the day.

Dave Morrow [00:54:28]:

Those cowboys and, you know, oil workers saving the day from the country.

Brett Campbell [00:54:33]:

Sorry. yeah. Go ahead, Dave, sorry. I wanted to add to what you said there too quickly before you, say your final things there. yeah, there were the war fighters and all those guys, return against me yet. There was a lot of those, but there was also a lot of guys that agreed with me and even came up to me and thanked me for what I was doing. there was a lot of I for example, no one in my platoon or even a little bit above my platoon said go get this vaccine. They said, I know what you’re doing, and this is just what’s happening right now, and thank you for doing what you’re doing. So there, there was a lot of critical thinkers within the military that are just too scared to fight this. So wasn’t like it was me against the whole world. Right? Like, there was a lot of people that agreed with me. And I would say 90 to 95% of my platoon was, on the same side as me. And they just had they just couldn’t, like, they they couldn’t, they didn’t have a choice. Right? I I had I had skills I could fall back on. Most people didn’t. So I just wanted to, like, mention that because it wasn’t, I don’t wanna sound like I was completely bullied because, to be honest, I think based off all the stories I heard, I had a little more respect from my chain of command than most people did in this lawsuit. it the the BS and the psychological came from the higher ups. That’s all it was. So I just wanted to make make sure that was said before we close off. Sorry about that. It’s good you clarified that too because, I mean, just from my, you know, outside in perspective,

Dave Morrow [00:56:00]:

the overwhelming majority. And I think that’s a big message that most Canadians don’t get. Overwhelming majority. And the fact that you’re mentioning it here were not on board with this. But like you said, it’s a golden handcuffs. Well, what am I gonna do? Once you’ve joined when you’re 18, this is the only thing I know. But it’s it’s this mentality that the, you know, things like the police and things like the army, they convince you that you’re only good at this one thing. And if you leave too bad so sad, you’re gonna be a bomb on the streets. And that is not the way the economy works these days. That is not the way — Yeah. — we’ve grown up. We have skills that are marketable. I know I left. highlighted on my feet. I’m doing better. Sure. I missed the military, but, hell, I’m glad I’m not in because I wasn’t gonna be able to grow to where I am now. So That’s a great point that you bring up there, Brett. so, Bart, and, and Brett, I’ll come back to you too just with some final thoughts. Bart, what are what are some, last thoughts you have before we sign off here?

Bart Postma [00:57:01]:

well, like, I I think I was trying to make that point mostly is that I know and I get it. There is, like, I hate to be so harsh, but there’s so many good people that do agree with And I think there’s a majority, but at a certain point, people, like I said, just to reiterate, we have to stand up. People have to be willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with us. or else things are gonna continue to go south. yeah, I know they’re out there. We just have to have the courage to speak the truth unapologetically, and then we gotta get to the next stage now where we demand justice tonight. thank Katherine so much for taking that on because, there’s not a lot of people out there that would do it. So So you’re a hero in my eyes for for taking this on. And I I thank you very much, and I hope, you know, justice always it always bends correctly. It’s slowly, but it bends slowly towards justice or whatever the saying is. and I think I think we’re gonna get there, and I just hope that, yeah, people will be more willing to stand up against what we’re seeing. Right on. Right on.

Dave Morrow [00:58:11]:

so thanks to all of you for, coming on the show again. And, I’m wishing you guys all the best with lawsuit. It’s definitely something we need, to have here in Canada at this time to represent, like you said, we have to push back and we have to ensure that the the system, is working properly. And like you said, if it has to expose that the courts are corrupt, then we have to Bose that the courts are corrupt. So I know there’s gonna be more to follow on this. And, you know, thanks so much guys for for sharing your stories here on the podcast. And, folks, stay tuned for more. There’s gonna be more updates. That’s for sure with this story. And don’t forget, train hard, fight easy. See you on the next one. Peace. I hate t shirts. They get floppy in the arms after 10 washes. that’s why I created a bunch of t shirts with high quality cotton just for you so that you can go to the gym and look fresh. Sports some philosophy and smash those PRs looking good. So you need to head to davemorell.net/merch. Grab yourself a hat grab yourself a t shirt, grab yourself a sweater, and support the cause today.